Sunday, July 29, 2018

HAPPY TALK -- "THE TALK" -- "A TALK" -- CHILDREN


"HAPPY TALK" -- I have fond memories from long ago of visiting college friends for a memorable experience at the St. Louis Municipal Opera where we enjoyed "South Pacific" featuring Juanita Hall who created the Broadway role of Bloody Mary in one of my favorite musicals.  

She did portray Bloody Mary in the movie version but her voice was dubbed, reportedly due to concern she might no longer be able to reach some of the high notes.   This YouTube video has united recordings of her actual voice with the movie video excerpt.




As has often been the case characters nationality may have no relation to the role portrayed.  So it is that Juanita Hall is not Polynesian, but is bi-racial with an African-American father and Irish-American mother.

Another South Pacific song, "You've Got to be Carefully Taught", sung years later by Mandy Patinkin adding "The Children Will Listen Medley" is of special significance today, emotionally expressing sentiments we all take to heart if we truly care about children.   



Talk, talk, talk we’re hearing lots of talk -- brings me to thinking about “talks”….. how families raising their young children help them learn to cope with societal differences that might result in them experiencing being discriminated against.    

I recently listened to a white-skin grandmother whose heritage is equally divided between two often discriminated against groups, but no one could tell by her skin color.   Her husband Caucasian.    She was concerned, wondering if their adopted son from one of those groups had “a talk” with his son as they had to have years ago with him when he was young?  

Her grandson’s father’s skin tones are definitely the golden-brown shade of his South American heritage.   Years ago, as a young man he experienced being queried more than once, assumed by some to speak a language other than English and being quizzed by authorities questioning his legal status.    He is at risk of the same today given the climate cultivated by some occupying leadership positions in our nation.  Their attitudes and some actions have served to deliberately unleash some base discriminatory qualities in others.

His son has lighter skin color, but nevertheless enough tone that could result in his being subjected to being confronted similarly, or even worse in these highly sensitive times.  This has the grandmother understandably concerned.  

Those of us who are white live privileged lives though we may well have taken our status for granted.   Do we have to have such “a talk” with our children?   Those of us with white skin don’t have to receive or give a color talk in my experience, so I can only imagine what that might be like. 

I recall talking with a black colleague about this subject years ago.  He related his experiences of being confronted in numerous instances, including when he was just exercise running in areas surrounding his modestly affluent residential community.  
Blacks often describe “the talk” as the terminology for what is mandatory for them, living in our shared world of physical body differences (color and even other differing characteristics).  Intolerance prevails in those lacking certain moral values. 

Most of us have never needed to receive “the talk”, but perhaps growing up we’ve received “a talk” or found it necessary as adults to deliver one of our own on issues other than skin color.    What comes to my mind was when my mother talked with me about some of the differences in people.   

Mother said that some people did discriminate against certain others, as she explained what little sense that often made.  Examples of some who could be treated poorly she cited were people with a darker skin than ours, like some of my brother’s high school classmates though there were few of them then, or those with religious differences like our dentist because he was Jewish (who I revere to this day for his caring, sensitivity and kindness). 
  
In those pre and WWII days people whose appearance was different in other ways -- had a foreign accent or spoke a language other than English might not be readily accepted.  Emotions could run high in the name of national security and how best to ensure our safety.

More prevalent today, arousing the anxiety of some, are those who wear headdress,  dress differently otherwise, though we've had the latter for generations with our Amish and other sect populations.  But remember how freaked out so many people were with boys allowing their hair to grow long (to which my husband also objected), or some of the clothing styles?

Mother noted within Christianity even Catholics were suspect by some Protestants – that there were people professing to be Christians claiming they cared for all people, but in fact, many practitioners seemed not to be ecumenical.   This seems strange since most religious groups say they embrace loving one another as a basic premise in their belief system.   

A religious spirituality significantly influenced my Mother’s life from which she quietly drew strength – beliefs she considered private -- best demonstrated by how she lived and treated other people personally and in business, rather than proselytizing.   She cautioned about those that tend to impose their beliefs on others – that their motivations might wisely be questioned in religion and otherwise.  She noted that often those who feel compelled to profess the loudest about their religiosity, or busily toot their own horn about their accomplishments and how right they are above all others, may be the least likely to live as they say others should.      

She also cautioned I should just disregard any name-calling to which I could be subjected.  This might occur because of my red hair – that agitators would likely just be trying to tease, annoy or anger me -- that my best response was to not give them that satisfaction.  She spoke of humor as a powerful defense in some situations.  

“The talk” that most closely resembles what the grandmother speaks of, and so many parents with children simply having darker than white skin colors are compelled to have with their young loved ones, can make the difference between life and death. 

“A talk” is different in the following example, but similar to “the talk” in some respects.  Mother told me she had cautioned my brother that because he had red hair, he might stand out to others and needed to be aware of that fact. 

For example, she was discussing how people get caught up with friends in group activities, sometimes in situations in which they might not even want to participate.   Even if he was just standing around, he should be aware that observers likely might remember seeing the more conspicuous and only tall red-haired guy though they might not be as apt to describe the others. 

Of course, merely telling me this story served as being “a talk” for this red-haired gal encountering any future situations.  Fortunately the red head issue never progressed for my brother and I beyond the teasing level.       

Did you ever receive “a talk”, or any of the more serious potentially life-preserving type “talks” as dark-skinned people and/or this grandmother is concerned about? 

Or, maybe you’ve given such “a talk”?  

18 comments:

  1. Goodness! I can't recall all of "the talks" received in my youth. My mother gave me the red-head talk - to the effect that I was to be particularly mindful that teenaged boys would consider a red-head as a challenge to their sexual prowess! As Mother was not a red-head, I always wondered where she came up with the idea. BTW: In my extended family of my generation (cousins) there were 14 of us; but, I was the only red-head.
    Another talk, this one in school, was given us girls about the best ways of handling potential sexual assaults - ways to avoid, to the extent possible. 1) Do not talk to possible assailant (it would seem to onlookers that we knew him), 2) head for the nearest police officer, 3) if assault occurred, THEN try to engage the assailant in "intellectual" conversation - such mental engagement might mute/blunt/short-circuit the original intention. I had reason to try all of the above - and - they worked.
    Another talk was from my mother who, at least in the 1940s and 1950s thought of people of color as having been placed on the earth as a scourge - based on some biblical reference. I was, however, admonished that I should treat everyone with respect. At no time was I taught to fear a person because of their skin color, their nationality, or their ethnicity.
    Cop Car

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    1. I recall, too, being given some cautions about boys, but especially strangers. Reality presented at a very young age when a known family friend and authority figure violated my naive trust. The experience resulted in my developing automatic radar for any future potential situations, and there were some — I have been wiser than my mother about risks and avoidance, not only with strangers, but known people throughout the rest of my life.

      I recently learned the person violating my childhood trust, who had been excused with little more than a talking to in the belief his offense was isolated and forgivable, became a highly respected official in life-saving profession. Despite his high rank he was convicted years later of offenses, unbeknownst to me, so received less consequences then deserved, since he likely was thought to be a first-time offender. I am left to wonder how many others there might have been in those interim years.

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  2. The talk I recieved was not one I based my life around.I had a little black girl join my class at school and I offered to play "jacks" with her at recess. The next day, my class mates said their parents told them that if I continued to play with her, they couldn't play with me. When I broached my parents about this, they agreed with the parents of my classmates. My parents would never be cruel to another race but they definitely didn't think we should mix nor were equal. Sadly I told my new black friend I couldn't play with her any more and she just said,"I thought you were different," and walked away. I felt horrid and tried to make it up to her but couldn't. I vowed then to never let anyone do my thinking for me, not even my parents whom I loved but never quite trusted their opinion again.

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    1. Heart-breaking story, but one probably far too common. I expect your parents believed they were protecting you and themselves from what could be some serious consequences. I know there could be very real dangers in some living areas for anyone going against decades long belief systems, especially if religiously justified, too. Basically, I think many children like you do arrive at their own conclusions about what makes sense and is just. We all can, and often do talk about how we’d behave in various situations, but until we actually encounter them I’m not so sure we can know how we’d react.

      I recall being in a new school, geographically and culturally different than where I’d previously lived. The first day at lunch as I sat alone under a tree, one of the girls left her group to come sit and talk to me. What a difference that simple act made in my life though my acceptance was far from over. I later learned that tentative acts of friendship included inviting me in to the study hall at recess to hear me talk with my regional accent sounding foreign to those southern speakers. I also recall those practicing a particular religion dominated that public school’s board who dictated their beliefs be followed — a predominant religion today — despite the majority of people believing otherwise. That was so illegal, but similar issues arose in a Southwestern state years later with a different large religious group. No one gets concerned about the separation of church and state until it’s not their religion that starts dictating their moral criteria.

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  3. My only warnings related to boys and how I dressed, etc. etc. I think it's the only one I gave my daughter. With my son, same kind of concern only-- if a girl says no, it means stop right there. I had no concern for them with other races as we're a mixed race family. I also remember warning them to obey any police officer, no arguing, etc. etc. They both were pretty sensitive to not bullying and to speak up when someone else was. I learned about one incident where my son stood up for a younger boy being bullied on the bus only when years later that boy told us. In Oregon, religion wasn't a big deal for any of us.

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    1. Interesting how issues about which we need to talk with our children can vary depending on our community. Some concerns seem to apply to all, and across generations. I’m sure it was rewarding to learn so many years later of your son’s actions to defend another.

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  4. Well, being a privileged white male with brown hair, I've never had any of those talks. I was trying to remember if my parents ever gave me a talk about sex or how to treat women but I can't recall anything. Whatever I picked up about such things, or about religion or skin colour, it seems it wasn't from my parents but more from friends and schoolmates and the media.

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    1. I think we do learn lots from others in our lives. In some cases it sticks with us more than what our parents might say, but some parents may not have direct talks.

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  5. In my home growing up, there was no physical punishment. Instead, there were Talks. So yes, I had lots of Talks about Everything. Lectures, we kids called them, about grades, behaviour, people, issues, etc. Lots and lots and lots of Talking, some good and some not so.

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    1. There can be talks and then there are talks — some helpful and some not so much. I don’t know that I consciously thought so much about what Mother said as life went along. Only in retrospect do I recall some of talks that were brief.

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  6. Being Korean-American, born and raised in Hawaii, I have never been discriminated against. I lived in California, New York, Thailand and Europe and never was turned away due to my race. Now, I am married to a white man, and we as a couple have never been discriminated against either.

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    1. That’s really good to hear. A good friend’s Korean-American daughter adopted as a baby didn’t experience discrimination growing up in Southern California either. They moved to Colorado when she was in high school and when she visited us later she responded that. she was less than happy there. When I asked why, she responded, “oh, you know...” and pointed to her slanted eyes. She was a beautiful sweet young girl, friend of our family and especially my daughter, that we had known most of her life, so it broke my heart to learn that.

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  7. I developed a huge crush on John Kerr (whatever happened to him?) so much so that I transferred it all to his lookalike on a farm nearby who had to have been 21 to my 14. Funny what we remember.

    South Pacific doesn't hold up for me from a feminist standpoint even tho it enchanted me as a child.

    Talk talk.

    (1) never let a boy touch you below the neck or above the knee.
    (2) if you use tampons no man will want you. Ever.
    (3) don't argue with men, no man likes an intelligent woman.
    (4) laugh at his jokes, always. Even though you heard them 100 times before.

    I ignored all of them.

    XO
    WWW

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    1. I, too, liked John Kerr when I saw him in the movie “Tea and Sympathy” with British actress Deborah Kerr (pronounced differently and no relation to him.). He reminded me of someone older I knew and liked, too.

      I agree to disliking the sexist message from Bloody Mary in the story. I think many of us were rejecting our societies prevailing attitudes about how subjective a female should be toward a romantic male interest. I was never taught to behave in a “less than” way, but recall on a date with the man I later wed, being counseled privately by a male friend of his I should let him win our ping pong match which I ignored. I had been singles and doubles champ in college and figured he should be able to handle however the game went. He held his own well, and seemed no worse for the wear from any defeats in the numerous games we played.

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  8. I carry a copy of the words to "You've got to be carefully taught to hate". I've always loved that song and all it implies. At a recent AA meeting a man (kind of a typical red neck white person,about 50 years old) brought up how he is having trouble accepting the girl that his son will be marrying. She is black and he said "I am trying to live the life of acceptance and love that AA teaches but it's so hard". I took the poem out and read it to the entire group (about 40) and he actually broke down and cried. After the meeting he asked to read it again and said he is going to get his own copy. I felt so thankful that I could see in real time how it can have an effect for the good.

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    1. Very moving story! Words and ideas do make a difference in people’s lives.

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  9. Wow. As the grandparent of mixed race grandkids I certainly know of various talks. As my grandkids all consider themselves black I also know the talks are a necessary evil. I have heard too many stories about being stopped for driving while being black. Too often I have witnessed people hesitating to enter an elevator if I was with one of the kids fathers - even while one was wearing his Army uniform. I have been pulled over driving my own vehicle by a Texas police officer because they thought my vehicle was owned by someone else even though when they ran the plate it came back as registered to me. In grade school in Colorado I can only recall one black student and can still clearly recall the look on my grandmother's face when I brought him home for lunch one day - pre-arranged but his color never having been discussed. To her credit my Gran was polite and friendly and did nothing to embarrass my friend though later that day she politely suggested it would be better not to bring him home again.

    I have friends today who get clearly agitated when the notion of white priveledge is brought up. They claim to have worked hard to earn everything they have and think it nonsense to even consider they had an easier path than did anyone of color. A couple of them are former jocks - like myself - who often had black teammates stc atc stc. So now - in the twilight of my time here I see things disintegrating and I fear for the future being bequeathed to my grandkids. It is truly scary.

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    1. You clearly have had too many situations that would call for talks. I share your concern about what the future holds.

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